Sunday, September 17, 2006

Stop saying we're violent...or we'll KILL YOU!

Speaking of religion and outlandish gospels, am I the only one who thinks this whole Pope/Muhammed thing is darkly hilarious? Muslims dispute Pope Benedict's intimations that they worship a violent, vengeful they firebomb churches and run through the streets burning effigies of the Pope. I'm fairly sure that if the Vatican continues to issue its not-quite-apologetic apologies, somebody somewhere will declare a jihad/intifada; already Hezbollah is getting into the act. Of course, Muslims previously demonstrated their restraint and openness to criticism by putting bounties on the heads of those Danish cartoonists and esteemed novelist Salman Rushdie, whose book The Satanic Verses included themes that portrayed Islam in a less-than-flattering light. I also hear that a bunch of them flew some planes into buildings a few years back...?

This may not be directly SHAM-related, but it sure seems like another form of sham (albeit one that's impolitic to talk too much about). Just cracks me up, is all.... But wait, hang on...I think I hear a commotion outside my house....

And in the category of "whadid I tell ya?", comes word that an Italian nun apparently has been gunned down in Somalia.


Anonymous said...

Great post!

Steve Salerno said...

See, I didn't want to put this in the main post, but I'm writing an extended opinion piece about it as we speak. Muslim apologists can talk all they want about U.S. imperialism and colonialism and capitalism and paternalism, and how we sowed the seeds of violence by doing this or doing that in the past, so therefore it's not surprising that we'd now reap what we sow... But the Pope? Nuns? How do you justify THAT?

Come on, folks. As I was trying to say last week, at some point--if we want to survive, which, of course, is a collective decision--we have to stop debating what brought the wolf to the door, and just deal with the fact that there's a wolf at the door. And we need to do it before the wolf gets its paws on WMDs. You can't have a one-world community when half of that world denies the other half its right to exist, and continually is looking for opportunities to kill that other half in new and improved ways. To me, it's that simple. Maybe it wasn't always that simple. But it is now.

Rodger Johnson said...

It is that simple. That cut and dry. Who's willing to give up their "god" first?

The problem: man's relationship with "god" and how we preceive that union.

Hans-Georg Gadamer, Heidegger's protege said that the world is presented to us through language. Thus, in communication, two people are not using language to interact with each other; rather, communication involves a triad of two individuals (we can extend this to groups -- Muslems and Christians) and a language.

That means neither Muslems or Christians speak the same "religious" language, so the confict remains as long as religion thrives.

And both will go to their death for their "god", by force or by choice.

Until we grow up and do away with religion -- the crutch which has feuled so much death in the history of mankind -- and understand that every man is consumed by death, that death in fact consumers every living creature on the earth, that all should and will come to nothing, and nothing matters -- then we can get at the real business of eradicating humanity from the planet.

What a peace day that will be.

Steve Salerno said...

But Rodg, to move away for a moment from the realms of philosophy and idealism... Do you really think your vision is possible? Before it's too late? Because if not--again, at some point, as unpalatable as it may seem, don't we have to stop obsessing over the possible and focus instead on the probable?

RevRon's Rants said...

Steve -

We can arm ourselves to the teeth - and we certainly must do so - to protect ourselves from those wolves that are at our door. But until we change the behaviors that brought the wolves in the first place (and continue to draw them), we will be destined to live in fear, arms at the ready. It's like filling a bucket with a hole in the bottom. Ignore the hole, and you'll be spending a lot more time at the spigot than should be necessary.

Steve Salerno said...

You can always throw away the bucket, Ron. And if you think you have a diseased bucket--one that's going to "spread holes" to all of your other buckets, and maybe play havoc with the rest of your tools and appliances as well--you have an obligation to get rid of it.

Rodger Johnson said...

Well, Steve, I think the point is quite clear. Neither Christians or Muslims will forsake their "god."

Unfortunately, that means we'll be fighting for the long-haul. That's okay. Neither the fight or who wins matters.

Your line of reasoning puts us in a quagmire. In theory we can kill the wolf, or the wolf can us. From either perspective, something dies.

Death is what matters, but then again, does it really?

Think about it this way. Say you're put in a cage with another man. The only way you can escape is to kill that other man. If you escape, you'll be executed. It's the damned if you do, damned if you don't conundrum.

The same reasoning applies here. Whether we extriminate all muslims, or all muslims exterminate us. There will always be a exterminator and the exterminated.

RevRon's Rants said...

Rodger -
Perhaps we might ask ourselves if sharing the "cage" is so horrific that killing becomes necessary, rather than sharing the space.

And the notion of "throwing away the bucket" makes as much sense as abandoning any efforts to coexist. It might seem ironic that prior to the US orchestrating the coup d' etat which placed the Shah in power, the US was never considered an enemy by the people of Iran. With the coup, that changed, because we could reasonably be seen as trying to restart the Crusades that had decimated the Muslim - indeed, the entire non-Catholic - world. So long as our foreign policy is built upon an openness to covert manipulation, destabilization, and regime change, we will create more terrorists than we could kill, short of a full-blown nuclear attack. So our choice remains to either do what is necessary to make ourselves secure, while allowing other countries to feel secure from threat of invasion, or to begin a regimen of widespread, endless killing. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail in the decision.

Anonymous said...

Steve- This is good stuff, not sure what it has to do with self help, but good stuff anyway for calling a spade a spade.

Anonymous said...

I recently saw a TV show where the newscaster was interviewing various experts who assured him that Iran would drop a nuclear bomb on us on September 22 as part of their religious celebrations, so maybe we won't have to worry about any of this for much longer...

RevRon's Rants said...

Keep in mind that in far too many instances, the definition of "expert" is "a retired drip under pressure."

Until there is some means of quantifying and certifying individuals as experts... :-)